EVE Online: Pay 2 Win? Age Advantage?


I know this isn’t the gameplay, or the tutorial
that I promised I would do after the introduction but something hit me. There’s a lot that I left out from the introduction
that didn’t fit into the introduction, but at the same time it didn’t fit into the tutorial
parts either. Because of that I thought I would make this
video before the tutorial just explaining these things and bringing light to questions
that new players might have. I’m not going to talk about all the questions
new players might have so if you have any in particular that this video doesn’t cover
then feel free to leave a comment. I’m going to start off lightly and just answer
a question I get asked a lot. It doesn’t really have a yes or no answer,
but I’m going to give my answer anyways. The question is: Is the game fun to play? Now, personally I would say yes. The game is really fun to play, and that’s
of course biased considering I have an insane amount of time in the game. But I don’t play the game 24/7. I can play it for a few months and then take
an equally long break from it unless something is really going on that keeps me coming back
and entertains me more than other games could. The question is highly dependent though, it
really comes down to what you do with your time in the game, because when I first started
playing I did it alone and I went down the usual mining route. I did some manufacturing but I did that for
like 1 or 2 years and looking back I can’t really remember why I kept coming back to
the game, why I kept logging in. But I ended up getting involved with some
corporations later on, or guilds if you will, and realized that I had personally, for those
2 years, played the game completely wrong. Because I found out I really enjoyed the social
part of the game. Having somebody to fly with or just talk to
someone while doing the boring stuff. I found that a lot more fun than alt-tabbing
to Netflix while sitting AFK in a belt just mining asteroids for hours. Anyways, going a bit off-topic but in short:
Yes, the game is fun. Just make sure you keep it interesting and
make sure you don’t let the game grow stale and, you know, burn you out. So yeah, on to the bigger questions. Now this topic I feel is a big one to cover
but I’ll do my best so here we go. Every time EVE has had a free-weekend on steam,
or released a new trailer, or even made it onto the news due to large-scale conflicts. News websites. I always read comments like this: And the
answer to the question is simple I feel, like yes. Now is a good time to join, every moment is
a good time to join in my opinion. And with the game being Free 2 Play the only
thing you’ll lose by trying it is time, so you know, if you want to try it then that’s
all you have to risk. However, it’s not really the question that
interests me but instead the answers given or the debate it spawns. Back in April and May I had a steam review
for EVE ‘blow up’, kind of. And during that time I met a lot of potential
new players with the exact same question. But when I answered that question with the
same answer I gave here I would get replies of something along the lines of this: Maybe
not quite as “hostile” but this was a comment on the review I made. And this is where this topic kinda falls down
a rabbit hole, because yes, older players will have more skillpoints than you. Unless you dump a whole load of cash into
your character. And yes, this can give them an advantage over
you. But that’s just like the black and white answer
and I feel that there is sort of a grey zone to this, and it’s a grey zone because in EVE
it’s about specializing into what you want to do. A player who has been part of the game for
years will have millions of skillpoints spread over many skill categories but at the same
time he might have the majority of his skills in categories that don’t interest you in the
slightest. Take me for example, I have a ton of skillpoints
in Industry which some of you might not even be interested in. I would then hope that those skillpoints don’t
matter to you as it doesn’t really give me any advantage in, let’s say PVP, if that’s
your interest. So you have new players who could focus into
weapon- weapon skills, ship skills and so on. And in a few months they would surpass me
mostly because I have skills only within Industry. Therefore giving them an edge in PVP over
me, even though I have played for years and they recently just started playing. Now this is just an example, of course, but
hopefully you get the picture. And even if my skillpoints are placed in a
category that interests you it only takes you a couple of months to get on the same
skill-level as a veteran player in terms of like skillpoints. But the way I choose to look at it, look at
EVE in this aspect, is that there will always be somebody who is better than you because
there will always be people who have played longer than you and it’s better to, instead
of letting it discourage you, just try and learn from them. Because even if you have the same skillpoint
level as them doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re better than them, or vice versa. So it’s all about knowledge when it comes
to game mechanics and the game itself. It benefits you just as much or maybe even
more than the skillpoints you have. So to keep this short try not to obsess over
how many skillpoints older players have compared to new players or you and instead just try
to learn the game as you train into what you want to do. You’ll benefit more from it and hopefully
you’ll enjoy the game a bit more. So the 2nd largest question, or statement
depending on who you talk to that I have heard is that EVE Online is a Pay 2 Win kind of
game. And like with the previous question I feel
there is a bit more to it than that. The debate whether or not EVE is Pay 2 Win
has been around for a long, long time. And the most recent outburst of this was earlier
this year when skill-injectors were introduced, which I will talk a bit about later on. So using this hastily made picture you can
kinda make out the process for how PLEX works. PLEX is short for Pilot License Extension
and allows you to stay subscribed to the game using your ingame cash-flow in case you’re
not able to do so with real money. But it also allows people who are well-off
in real life to buy PLEX via the store page and sell it on the market for whatever ISK
value it goes for. This is where the claims for Pay 2 Win comes
into Play and just as with the last question there is a black and white answer of: Yes,
this does give people with a lot of disposable income an advantage over players who doesn’t
have that. But even if that is correct, which I am inclined
to believe it is because ‘on paper’ it is Pay 2 Win, I still don’t feel that it’s a
problem with EVE. It’s again about the knowledge of game mechanics
and the ships, and the gear that you use. You won’t see anyone who PLEX their way to
riches gain a super advantage over others, except for in the size of their wallets of
course. Being rich and having access to all the fancy
ships and equipment doesn’t mean that you are bound to win every fight and encounter
you get into. As a matter of fact, the more expensive your
ship and fitting is, the more likely people are to either gank you or hunt you down, so
you could argue that it’s a disadvantage to fly fancy expensive ships. And as I mentioned earlier there is a way
for you to buy skillpoints. CCP implemented this earlier this year which
allowed players to extract their skills and put them on the market for other people to
buy. I have only bought skillpoints a couple of
times so I don’t quite know how it works, but from what I have gathered it goes kinda
like this: A player with a lot of skillpoints in what he sees as useless categories can
buy a skill-extractor. He can use that extractor to extract half
a million skillpoints. Then the extractor becomes a injector instead,
which he can then use to inject into himself again to apply to skills that he thinks are
more useful, or he can put it on the market for others to buy and consume. Depending on how many skillpoints you already
have, you won’t get all of the 500.000 skillpoints in the injector, like me for example. I only gain around 150.000 skillpoints from
a injector. So the more skillpoints you have, the less
you gain from the injectors. And with that said I can completely understand
why people would still call it a Pay 2 Win game but you also have to remember that this
game has had a character market where you could basically do the same thing. You could buy a character with the skills
that you wanted from another player who sold that character, so, in the end- I mean yes,
it has the elements of a Pay 2 Win game but it doesn’t affect the game in the way you
would imagine when you hear people mention Pay 2 Win. It’s not going to be a magical win-button
for everything you do, real experience of the gameplay, of the ships and of the equipment
that you use will be way more valuable than all the skills you can inject to yourself. So even if you’re thinking about buying skill
injectors just to get like a new fancy ship it’s a lot smarter to instead train manually
and learn how to fly the ship properly. I’m not saying you shouldn’t buy skill-injectors
I’m just saying experience counts way more than skillpoints put into it. So yeah that’s basically my opinion on this
subject/question/statement. And lastly, before this video becomes too
long is a question that I haven’t been asked too often but I think I could just answer
it anyways. And that is: How often does the game receive
content and how often is it balanced? The game receives frequent updates now where
as it used to be that the updates were few and far between. The content that you get now is free of course,
like it always has been so you won’t have to worry about paying for expansions or having
content locked behind paywalls (Not counting the subscription benefits). Other than that, the meta in the game takes
time to change so it all comes down to what is being balanced and the length between balance
updates. CCP (in my experience) likes to space the
balancing in order for the players to get used to the balancing and in order for them
to give enough feedback to CCP for them to either fix it or move on to something else
to balance. And sometimes it might take them a bit too
long between balancing, or they don’t balance at all which can leave part of the playerbase
a bit agitated. Again though, it kinda depends. The Developers are a lot more flexible now
with the frequent updates, so it is definitely moving towards the better. You can’t really blame CCP either tho (For
slow updates) as they want to have every ship be relevant in some kind of way, all thought
that isn’t always the case. The game has 100s of modules and 100s of ships
so I imagine balancing can be tricky especially when you tackle the current meta in the game. And that is the end of this video. I promise the next one will be me going through
the tutorial and gameplay, but I felt I had to make this. As you can tell, non of these topics would
have been too good to cover while doing the tutorial and they would simply take up too
much time which could be used to explain other things in the game. Anyways, thanks a lot for watching this. I hope this answered some of the questions
/ concerns you might have. If you have any other questions, again just
leave a comment and I’ll get back to you on it. Until next time, Fly Safe! o7 Until next time, Fly Safe! o7 Until next time, Fly Safe! o7 *Dramatic Music Intensifies*

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17 thoughts on “EVE Online: Pay 2 Win? Age Advantage?

  1. The Grey zone is bring lots of friends and fuk shit up, chances are you can kill a solo vet.

    but when you see a capital fleet, run the fuk awayyyyy….

  2. I feel as though it's Pay2Win*.

    If you have two groups of equally skilled people, one earning isk in-game and the other buying isk with real money, the ones buying isk have a massive advantage over those earning it. They can interrupt the other group from earning isk in-game, they can spend their extra time becoming even more skilled, and losing ships doesn't affect them nearly as much as it does the other group.

    Sure, spending thousands of dollars to inject a new character with every skill, train them all up, and buy and fly a Titan doesn't mean you'll "win". But if you use your real life money to fund, say, an entire corporation of players who know what they're doing, then you have yourself an unassailable income that gives you an advantage over others.

  3. the sort fall in the logic is that if you have 100mil sp and above likely all your skill sets are going to very superior any specialist character training for a few months, just choose your targets wisely or bring aΒ  bunch of buddies.

  4. Eve is far more about knowledge than SP, as you said. Only with everything else being equal will SP give you an advantage over others. Great Video by the way πŸ˜€

  5. I am looking at trying the free to play side to see if I can stay interested…. my questions are is there a race or faction that would be better for a newbie…. do you have to be an omega player to be in a guild… and how far can you go as an alpha player?

  6. saying eve is paytowin is plainly stupid. just point them out to some crazy out killmails of people who lose ships blinged up with officer mods and lose all their cash.

  7. the problem is the definition of p2w when do you have an advantage over some1 else, in most theme park mmo's is it the speed to get to max armor, weapon and lvls and skill points eventually rich or poor will reach it the differrence is the time, the ingame currency doesnt mather mutch untill next update. but in sandbox mmo'sΒ thats a different ballgame. the reason nobody thinks itsΒ  p2w is because you can steal it you can take the money from the rich and laugh with it and enjoy thinking they crying because they lost there money and in eve online there is no real max lvl or skills only guerilla tactics you go against goonfleet you die. if you have enouf frigate you can kill battleship have enouf battleships you can kill capitals. but to come to my point is the speed to reach all of this is alot faster if you use real money so the actuall p2w is the same. so eve is PAYTOWIN

  8. its not pay to win at all…
    What are you trying to win? PVP battles?
    Those need personal skill and knowledge and experience with ships and modules in different situation… not money.

    Players unable to earn isk and buy plex because they have no patience are good for eve players.
    Since the more these n00bs buy plex for isk the cheaper it gets in market and the easier it will be to get omega with isk.

    I laugh at people that buy plex for isk.
    Shot down a shuttle with my destroyer that lagged during undock it had 5 plexes.
    He convo'd me furious that he just bought the plex and was about to sell it…
    I realised I just destroyed 100 Euros (He was german).
    It was so hilarious that I just replied with laughter.
    And I'm just an alpha clone…

    Plex prices keep dropping so be my guest and buy plex because you're too impatient to earn isk like real eve players do.

  9. I'm a new player to EVE, I've only been playing for 3 days and I have to say, if you do play the game. Join a corp and it'll be almost impossible to shake the addiction to EVE.

  10. I'm a new player to EVE, I've only been playing for 3 days and I have to say, if you do play the game. Join a corp and it'll be almost impossible to shake the addiction to EVE.

  11. I think it's worth playing. Eve has a good community, mature and cool people. CCP is very close to the community and they have a really good support. About being pay to win, in the industry can be a great advantage since more SP means more options. For pvp not so much, over time you become fast at getting intel on other players and choose who you will engage or not.

  12. At it's core EVE is about how much of it's endless mechanics you understand. Tracking, warp speed, falloff, slot layout, bonuses, overheating, the list goes on and on, and the more you know the more you can take advantage of other players without dying. Money and skill point are an advantage, but the more mechanics you understand the less you are going to die.

  13. I have 7,000+ hrs of game time over 3 1/2 years plus im a CEO. I will say this game has gone pay to win and what this guy didnt mention is; skill injectors ruined the game because when u have experienced players making new toons and injecting a ton of SP via isk or plex from real world currency, then it changes the game completely. Of course people will hate my comment but prove me wrong. CCP ruined eve buy merging plex and aurum (plex is 2bil isk now for 500) and adding the injectors. I myself have used injectors when i joined a null sec alliance. in 2 hrs and 4bil isk later (all made in game) i was able to fly a carrier with good skills and tech 2 fit and made 100mil/hr ratting. The injectors killed 86days of training where the true Vets of EVE (much respect from me) had to do it the hard way and learn. Eve is an awesome game but CCP is making it very hard for the players. New players, dont count on plex for gametime, just pay the sub. If ur not a pvp player, don't bother. They have ruined Industry which is the entire foundation of the game and null sec is a joke. Why does 50+ pilots dock when one Tengu come into system? To be required to use multiple forms of communication eg, discord, teamspeak, and alliance/corp chats, it becomes a military position not a game. eve has voice chat and text chat but yet we need 3+ other programs running to be involved. Missions are boring as fuck, everything is the same, over and over and over. Alliance tournaments are the only events in game. Now they have NPC miners that dont fill buy orders so isk is just wasted because they dont want the Industry making the isk it does in High Security space. This game is all catered to pvp and null sec. Oh and if the economy is "player driven" then why the hell does CCP keep getting involved in its balance? CCP does actively play Eve, they have toons named CCP then player name, so its not really player driven is it? Enough of my rant but understand, this game is completely pay to win. Login and see for yourself. I didnt mention the constant nerfing of ships and modules once players find a primo fit. if ur fit is successful at keeping the enemy at bay, the nerf happens.

  14. THE EDGY ONLINE DEBATOR ( Ν‘Β° ΝœΚ– Ν‘Β°)γƒŽ #14/88 卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐卐 says:

    Eve Online "fairness" in a nutshell.
    The person with the oldest account will always win 1vs1 battles, even when the newer player has a better ship. The only exception is if said players ship is overwhelmingly more powerful.

    A person who has sunk a year into training combat skills, can easily dominate with noob/cheapy ships… While newer players are useless in all avenues…. How can a gun, or a thruster, or a battery, etc. Have more output/power/efficiency, just because of the pilot. They should scrap it and replace it with a risk-reward system.

  15. lol the veteran players are just angry because they don't want the new players catching them. This is what it really all boils down to over the skill injectors and it's not even true because to catch them, you'd have to spend Β£10,000 + on the things. It works out to be around Β£25 in injectors just to go from level IV to V on some skills. After something like 120 mil SP, you only get 150K sp per larger injector. This would then mean it costing Β£60+ in real world money to go from level IV to V on some skills. The game is not pay to win unless you remortgage your house. The skill injectors are just there to give new players the chance to be able to at least enjoy some of the content (i.e. get the skills to at least level III/IV) without having to wait 18 months. CCP had to do this because a situation arose where you had a small elite group of players who controlled the game with a constant turn around of new players who would quit after a few months due to realizing they stood no chance of ever catching the top players.

    And lets say you did spend Β£10,000 on getting most of your combat skills maxed out….it's not as simple as just jumping in a start kicking some ass in EVE. EVE is a very complex game where experience is a huge part of deciding outcomes. Again,the veteran players know this, they just don't like the possibility that new players can come into the game and get to a competent level within a reasonable amount of time. I can kind of understand their mindset as they had to grind out the SP although as I said above, the game was in a bad way in terms of the playerbase (and still is to some degree) and was is desperate need of change in order to attract new players. As a veteran player, you should be thinking about whats best for the health of the game rather than what you think is good for you personally as the game dying isn't going to help you.

    This is why the only people you see complaining are the veteran players (and the odd nob who got ganked on a gate ofc).

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